How she acted the next morning...

[PoonTangClan]

Playing devils advocate.   Another example of how men fail to hold women accountable for their actions and decisions, but continually hold men to a higher standard of accountability.    Yes the chick did do something wrong.     

He said “She ended up staying all night.” How did this happen? They mutually agreed by each others actions.  Thats how.   It’s his place. It's her pussy.  Maybe she decided to stay longer because of all that game my man was slinging.   She is the only one who has control over who gets to f--k her.   

She wanted to stay (which may have been an up-sell strategy).   Did she state that she expected more for her staying?  How much did she state she wanted?   Oh No report of that?.   Didnt she have an obligation to herself to state how much more she wanted for staying longer?   

She has no right to get mad at him either,  because she failed to inform the guy that she wanted more.  Not only that,  how much more she wanted.   Why is she off the hook for her failure as if she did nothing wrong?   She's off the hook for failure to get the terms straight, but he isnt?   

When she smashed a second time, she may have assumed that that put the guy and her at two ST rate smashes @ 2500 each.   But under what regulation, code, or SOP manual says so?   Where is that written?   It's not.   It's about negotiation.   Both have liability in that matter, not just the guy.    He was guilty of being shortsighted.  But so was she.   She bet , gambled and failed to get what she was expecting. 

Why didnt she get what she was expecting?   Because she failed to get that straight from the beginning.  So you see, this failure of responsibility works both ways.  Not just one way.   There is no automatic 5000 peso payment due if there was no agreement to pay that.   Prostitutes should be held accountable for their f--k ups just like any monger.   She got what she deserved for not doing her due diligence.   if anything she should be happy that the man was thoughtful enough to offer her another 1000.  And the potential for repeat business.  But now, she probably blew that possibility.   Yes, that mugg did something wrong.

Murano,

I get what you’re saying here, and you make a reasonable argument, but, as gringos, we don’t have the upper hand when it comes to this kind of chica drama in a foreign country. If you don’t want to be in the position to be on the hook to pay for something you don’t want to pay for, you don’t engage without explicit negotiation and agreement.

It’s no different from the squeegee guy trying to wash your car window at the stop light without asking for your permission first. Yeah, you can let him do it and then drive off (because you didn’t ask), but if you don’t want him bothering you for money, and you don’t want the drama, you don’t allow him to even start washing your window. That’s on you because it’s your car. Same thing with the chica situation here. That’s on you because she’s in your place.







Furthermore

[murano2010]

Murano,

I get what you’re saying here, and you make a reasonable argument, but, as gringos, we don’t have the upper hand when it comes to this kind of chica drama in a foreign country. If you don’t want to be in the position to be on the hook to pay for something you don’t want to pay for, you don’t engage without explicit negotiation and agreement.

This is monger/chica negotiation theory 101.  It's not me that needs to know this.  You can share that with the OP.

My focus in this topic was not on that, but on something different : 

1. You don’t have the right to be angry with the chica.
2. She didn’t do anything wrong.
3. When you smashed a second time, that put you at two ST rate smashes @ 2500 each,
4. so yes, she was fair and correct to expect a total of 5,000 pesos from you.
5. If the chica decided to stand her ground for that 5,000 pesos, she would’ve had every right to make your day miserable,
6. because technically, you f--ked up and you shorted her. You were wrong.

My take :

1. He does have the right to be angry with the chica.  Why the double standard?

2. Yes she did do something wrong.   Didnt you say in your post?  "If a chica who didn’t come for TLN wants to make it a TLN, ya’ll have to discuss $$$ before you go any further."   Well "Ya'll"  to me means two people.  Both have to initiate discussing the terms of $$$ before they go further.   Not just the man.    Neither initiated discussing it further.  So they both f--ked up not taking responsibility for that.   Not just the OP.

She did something wrong on her end.   She is in business, it is not personal.  So as an Independent Contractor if she wanted more money for staying longer she had an obligation to say so.  As you read, she didnt get what she expected.  Thats because she failed.  How you got him the only one being wrong, and not her is what I was addressing.   

3. The OP was correct.  There was no established price for a TLN. No automatic pymt of 5000.  Just because she says so.  The cost for any services is what two people negotiate.  They both failed to do that.   A hoes expectations after smashing doesnt automatically determine the full price.  They both gambled, and he came out somewhat ahead, THIS TIME.   

And that is the main thing that matters for this incident.  Whatever he chooses to do in the future is on him.  He got the better of that exchange, THIS TIME.    And thats why I would not emphasize that this issue is about right or wrong.  It's more about cause and effect.   She got extra pay.  Less than she wanted.   Maybe she will learn from this?   He may have to learn more about what can go wrong if a chica decides to pursue further.  But that is not the issue Im addressing at the moment.  Just this dynamics of protecting females and not holding them accountable,  and putting the onus only on a man being accountable, even if a female f--ks up on her end.    A subject that shouldnt be taken lightly. 

4.  She was being fair?  That chick was far from being fair.   Fair would have been her stating how much extra she wanted for staying longer.  She reneged on that responsibility and instead put it in the OP's judgement of what to pay her.  And as it turned out,  that is exactly what happened.   

5. Now that statement is off the chain.  The chick tried to be slick and bamboozle this dude out of money they never negotiated for.  And you feel she had a right to make his day miserable?   Is there any wonder of why I talk about elements of female worship and throwing men under the bus the way I do.   It occurs to me, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.  I guess she doesnt deserve being miserable for what she tried to pull?  Only him?  Thats deep.     

6. Technically, she shorted herself.  She deferred getting extra pay to his judgement.   I read the OP's story.  She is the one that requested 2500 for smashing initially.  According to him, she made the offer,  not him.   So being an Independent Contractor,  if she decided that she wanted a certain amount extra,  the onus was on her ( for her own expectations ) to tell him what she wanted. Just like she did before they got started.  SHE f--kED UP on her end, plain and simple.   

Thats like agreeing to work for a job ( as an Independent Contractor)  that pays a set rate, and the pay is the same even if you put in overtime.  If you want a job that pays extra for extra work,  then you dont choose a job without finding out how the employer handles paying for extra work.     On his end,  he failed to find out what the IC expectations were for staying longer, but made his own calculations.   But it potentially cost her more because she f--ked up with THIS boss.   

Most of us know the potential of what could happen if a chick took an incident to an extreme.   That did not happen in this incident.  I'm dealing with what actually occurred, not what could have happened.    The extreme possibilities is a whole different issue.  Not seeing , caring or addressing the irresponsibility of women when they are wrong.  Only seeing men as being wrong,  even when women f--k up.  And feeling it's ok for a chick to make a mans day miserable , but nothing said about the chick for what she tried to pull.  You really would support the idea of some dudes day being miserable just because some female was disappointed?   Eye opening indeed. 

Im trying to get some understanding of why some men are so protective towards females ( even when they are wrong, or f--k up ) , but have no problem throwing men under the bus, and having a different standard for accountability.   And the key here is this.  This is not a personal relationship with feelings between a man and a woman.  Some would try to argue about a man having more responsibility because he is a man, and is supposed to take the lead because of his gender.   This is not the situation for that argument to stick.  This incident is about business.   
 

[murano2010]

All in all I handled it well. I know you guys saying it was dumbed on my part ... But there are not rates in Sosúa hanging on walls and posters of the going rates of ST and TLN... MY rates are 3000 to 4000 if the price is not discussed, f--k that.... I honestly never had that kind of reaction from a chick.  I was more disappointed more than anything becuz i was in the crib chilling and she said for me 2500, usually when they do that, i will say 1500 or 2000, but didn't bother.  I should have considering i was telling her i don't wanna spend money for girls etc etc etc... 99 percent of chicks are happy to get that extra 1000 the next morning actually...

But I get what some of y'all are saying too

1. MY rates are 3000 to 4000 if the price is not discussed, f--k that. 

2. I honestly never had that kind of reaction from a chick. 

3. I was more disappointed more than anything becuz i was in the crib chilling and she said for me 2500, usually when they do that, i will say 1500 or 2000, but didn't bother.  I should have considering i was telling her i don't wanna spend money for girls etc etc etc...

4. 99 percent of chicks are happy to get that extra 1000 the next morning actually...

My Take :

1. Ok, she has her rates, and you have your rates.  You say f--k that if the price is not discussed.   That is fine.  What you do doesnt affect anyone else.  Like I always say.  If one does not learn or take heed from someone else's example or advice,  the locals will teach you.  It's just a matter of timing.

2. The fact that you never had that type of reaction before, should be a wake up call that there may be many reactions you havent experienced yet.  And this incident goes to show, you are not exempt from potentially experiencing a whole lot more reactions you never had before.   What PTC said is a truism.  A incident like yours could have gone to a whole different extreme than a chick just getting mad, and leaving.   And if it did get much worse,  you would be saying the same thing.  "I never had that type of reaction before."     

3. Apparently you contributed to your own disappointment by not realizing and possibly underestimating that that chick might have her own expectations of what she was owed.   That she was conducting sloppy business with you,  and she wasnt staying longer because she liked you.   She was there to get extra money.  An invisible meter ( with no display ) was attached to her pussy. 

4. A self serving statistic does not protect one from what can happen on a case by case basis.   One only needs one major incident ( that 1 % ) that might change a person's whole outlook on how important it is to protect oneself from extreme drama and losses.   

[murano2010]

If u don't know her or know the game well enough.... Keep whatsapp receipts of prices discussed and for what. Don't be afraid to talk nasty af to convey what u want and expect. It's your money. That way u got recourse if shit goes awol.

Keep your frame. They will try. Them dominican chics are honestly too feisty for most dudes... Yet men love them lol.

That chick never coming back to where I live fam.....i sometimes like to play mind games with them, so i might see her somewhere and get her a couple beers OR something a little more than the extra money she wanted and tell her to her face but very cool manner that based on how you acted that morning i could never invite you over again ever. And just basically tell her in a longer period of time she could have gotten way more outta me than worry about an extra 1000 pesos....

Would she care?  I have no idea, but will give her something to thing about and prob help her and the next man...

In my estimation,  to have the inclination to do all of that just because she was mad and ungrateful for what she had to leave with,  is demonstrating a degree of Butthurt on your part.   You want some sort of vengeance against this chick just because of her reaction?

You want to let her know that you could never invite her over again?   Just not hiring her again isnt enough?  And you want her to know, that she could have gotten way more outta you than the extra 1000 you paid her.   Playing devils advocate again.  How was she supposed to know that?   Neither one of you are the type to offer full disclosure on your thoughts or intentions when it comes to business and cost. 

That chick is in the business of making money.   Chances are she'll have many more opportunities to replace her potential losses of you hiring her again,  to the point that she wont be even thinking about what she is supposedly missing.   Locals arent necessarily wired to feel loss the way we expect them to. 

And if she does step to you,  that aint nothing to rejoice over.  Thats just her doing business.   If you leave her alone,  you dont get that good pussy.  But you'll be thinking about it,  because her reaction bothered you after having a good time with her.   You want to resolve that feeling inside, dont you?   

If you give in,  even if you get the terms straight,  you will know who is really better at this game.  Never say never,  unless it's true.  You'd be better off saying the chick is suspended until further notice.  That is more believable. LOL

[The Traveler]

Whether a rookie mistake or a vet mistake, I think many forget that the chicas are in Sosua to earn money (business). Everything outside of what was agreed on (business) is business. There are no freebies with someone that does not know you. In her mind, once she is aloud to spend the night, and you hit it in the morning, a payment is to be made because it is another business transaction. Further more in her mind she thinks you know that. That is why you should make things totally clear. Changing from short time to over night changed the business transaction. That should have immediately changed the mongers thought pattern to ask the question, how much, when she decided to stay all night?

I had one who really did not want to leave. I told her if she stays she can sleep and eat, but I am not paying, it is her choice. Well all was good the next day with out a hitch. Luckily for the OP nothing strong came of it. If you ignore her you will see if she eyes you down, if she does that will mean she would like to see you again. The OP said the session was fantastic. Hell I would be looking for her again lol. Bottom line, remember this is a business. Only when you know a chica very well it is less business.

[Jazzy2019]

Whether a rookie mistake or a vet mistake, I think many forget that the chicas are in Sosua to earn money (business). Everything outside of what was agreed on (business) is business. There are no freebies with someone that does not know you. In her mind, once she is aloud to spend the night, and you hit it in the morning, a payment is to be made because it is another business transaction. Further more in her mind she thinks you know that. That is why you should make things totally clear. Changing from short time to over night changed the business transaction. That should have immediately changed the mongers thought pattern to ask the question, how much, when she decided to stay all night?

I had one who really did not want to leave. I told her if she stays she can sleep and eat, but I am not paying, it is her choice. Well all was good the next day with out a hitch. Luckily for the OP nothing strong came of it. If you ignore her you will see if she eyes you down, if she does that will mean she would like to see you again. The OP said the session was fantastic. Hell I would be looking for her again lol. Bottom line, remember this is a business. Only when you know a chica very well it is less business.

This is on point. When a ST turns into TLN I’m definitely not hitting it in the morning unless she initiates sex. Even then I’m going to tell her if she wants dick I’m not paying for her to have it. Stranger or regular they’re prone to think that if they f--k twice they get paid twice. If you want to f--k in the morning it’s best to ask her how much it’s going to cost.

[WorstBehavior]

Whether a rookie mistake or a vet mistake, I think many forget that the chicas are in Sosua to earn money (business). Everything outside of what was agreed on (business) is business. There are no freebies with someone that does not know you. In her mind, once she is aloud to spend the night, and you hit it in the morning, a payment is to be made because it is another business transaction. Further more in her mind she thinks you know that. That is why you should make things totally clear. Changing from short time to over night changed the business transaction. That should have immediately changed the mongers thought pattern to ask the question, how much, when she decided to stay all night?

I had one who really did not want to leave. I told her if she stays she can sleep and eat, but I am not paying, it is her choice. Well all was good the next day with out a hitch. Luckily for the OP nothing strong came of it. If you ignore her you will see if she eyes you down, if she does that will mean she would like to see you again. The OP said the session was fantastic. Hell I would be looking for her again lol. Bottom line, remember this is a business. Only when you know a chica very well it is less business.

well said.

[lazy_monger]

Whether a rookie mistake or a vet mistake, I think many forget that the chicas are in Sosua to earn money (business). Everything outside of what was agreed on (business) is business. There are no freebies with someone that does not know you. In her mind, once she is aloud to spend the night, and you hit it in the morning, a payment is to be made because it is another business transaction. Further more in her mind she thinks you know that. That is why you should make things totally clear. Changing from short time to over night changed the business transaction. That should have immediately changed the mongers thought pattern to ask the question, how much, when she decided to stay all night?

I had one who really did not want to leave. I told her if she stays she can sleep and eat, but I am not paying, it is her choice. Well all was good the next day with out a hitch. Luckily for the OP nothing strong came of it. If you ignore her you will see if she eyes you down, if she does that will mean she would like to see you again. The OP said the session was fantastic. Hell I would be looking for her again lol. Bottom line, remember this is a business. Only when you know a chica very well it is less business.

This is on point. When a ST turns into TLN I’m definitely not hitting it in the morning unless she initiates sex. Even then I’m going to tell her if she wants dick I’m not paying for her to have it. Stranger or regular they’re prone to think that if they f--k twice they get paid twice. If you want to f--k in the morning it’s best to ask her how much it’s going to cost.

That's on her. Personally, I have one price.  Price of access.  She stays that's on her.  If she let me f--k in the morning.  Same price.  I rather had slept without her.  My girl gets pissed off when I sprawl across the bed after she gets up to go to work.  I rather sleep alone.  For most dudes, TLN is just an ego thing.  Most of us aren't f--king all night. 

[Jazzy2019]

I also suggest when you’re negotiating TLN the you explicitly tell her “sexo en la noche y sexo en la mañana”. Then if she doesn’t come through in the morning you can reduce her payment. Understand though if you pass out drunk and miss the sexo en la noche you’ve kinda like miss the first round.

[Jazzy2019]

Whether a rookie mistake or a vet mistake, I think many forget that the chicas are in Sosua to earn money (business). Everything outside of what was agreed on (business) is business. There are no freebies with someone that does not know you. In her mind, once she is aloud to spend the night, and you hit it in the morning, a payment is to be made because it is another business transaction. Further more in her mind she thinks you know that. That is why you should make things totally clear. Changing from short time to over night changed the business transaction. That should have immediately changed the mongers thought pattern to ask the question, how much, when she decided to stay all night?

I had one who really did not want to leave. I told her if she stays she can sleep and eat, but I am not paying, it is her choice. Well all was good the next day with out a hitch. Luckily for the OP nothing strong came of it. If you ignore her you will see if she eyes you down, if she does that will mean she would like to see you again. The OP said the session was fantastic. Hell I would be looking for her again lol. Bottom line, remember this is a business. Only when you know a chica very well it is less business.

This is on point. When a ST turns into TLN I’m definitely not hitting it in the morning unless she initiates sex. Even then I’m going to tell her if she wants dick I’m not paying for her to have it. Stranger or regular they’re prone to think that if they f--k twice they get paid twice. If you want to f--k in the morning it’s best to ask her how much it’s going to cost.

That's on her. Personally, I have one price.  Price of access.  She stays that's on her.  If she let me f--k in the morning.  Same price.  I rather had slept without her.  My girl gets pissed off when I sprawl across the bed after she gets up to go to work.  I rather sleep alone.  For most dudes, TLN is just an ego thing.  Most of us aren't f--king all night.

Lazy, that might work for you, but for the ordinary monger I strongly suggest taking my advice.

[Solodolo23]

Quick story... So got with one of them.. she said I can pay her 2500... I didn't make any offer... She did.

She comes over, i pay the taxi 300 pesos, that's curfew prices, since it's better to use that than a moto.  But I should have made her ass use a moto, first mistake...

She comes in, everything is all great, drank with me, etc... f--ked of course....

She ended up staying all night... f--ked the morning...

She got ready to leave like 7 am... And I gave her $3500...

No thanks, nada.  Just, "so you really gonna give that only?".

She said, it should be $5000.

I was like, "sorry I don't have that, i am giving you more than what we agreed on and it's all i have, you can't even say thanks and keep it pushing?".  I was like, you and I can chill again and I would give you more...

This chick stormed out my place and slammed the door and everything ... which got me pissed the f--k off, i wanted to knock her head off, but kept it cool...

So this chick, who was great in bed, turned out to be a f--king did personality wise... I wasn't expecting that reaction, thought she was smarter, and just more graceful than that.... But can't trust non of them, really gotta talk and lay out everything...

Proud Simp,

You don’t have the right to be angry with the chica. She didn’t do anything wrong. You both agreed upon an initial price that was NOT explicitly for a TLN. She came over and ya’ll initially smashed on a ST rate (2,500 pesos).

You said “She ended up staying all night.” How did this happen? What do you mean? It’s your place, and you’re the only one who has control over who stays there.

She wanted to stay (which was an up-sell strategy), and you agreed to the up-sell with your actions. (You allowed her to stay, and you continued to smash).

When you smashed a second time, that put you at two ST rate smashes @ 2500 each, so yes, she was fair and correct to expect a total of 5,000 pesos from you.

If the chica decided to stand her ground for that 5,000 pesos, she would’ve had every right to make your day miserable, because technically, you f--ked up and you shorted her. You were wrong.

If a chica who didn’t come for TLN wants to make it a TLN, ya’ll have to discuss $$$ before you go any further.

You’re exactly right. The chica wasn’t wrong. Guys rush too much without getting all the details sorted out. Unless you’re with a regular that you trust, work out the agreement before you get in the room.

[j.smooth9]

This is why before i go to sleep with a chica I always ask " quieres mas dinero dormir contigo?" sometimes they will want an extra 1.5-2k pesos other times they want to just sleep in a comfortable AC controlled room lol.

Communication is free never assume

[murano2010]

I also suggest when you’re negotiating TLN the you explicitly tell her “sexo en la noche y sexo en la mañana”. Then if she doesn’t come through in the morning you can reduce her payment. Understand though if you pass out drunk and miss the sexo en la noche you’ve kinda like miss the first round.

That is a reasonable suggestion.   That may produce a reduction in headaches later.  However, telling her, and her agreeing, does not mean anything if the chick changes her mind.  Even if a guy decides to pay her less.   It can still go sideways,  with her demanding to be paid in full, and refusing to leave.   

But your suggestion is much better than , saying nothing at all.   

[lazy_monger]

Whether a rookie mistake or a vet mistake, I think many forget that the chicas are in Sosua to earn money (business). Everything outside of what was agreed on (business) is business. There are no freebies with someone that does not know you. In her mind, once she is aloud to spend the night, and you hit it in the morning, a payment is to be made because it is another business transaction. Further more in her mind she thinks you know that. That is why you should make things totally clear. Changing from short time to over night changed the business transaction. That should have immediately changed the mongers thought pattern to ask the question, how much, when she decided to stay all night?

I had one who really did not want to leave. I told her if she stays she can sleep and eat, but I am not paying, it is her choice. Well all was good the next day with out a hitch. Luckily for the OP nothing strong came of it. If you ignore her you will see if she eyes you down, if she does that will mean she would like to see you again. The OP said the session was fantastic. Hell I would be looking for her again lol. Bottom line, remember this is a business. Only when you know a chica very well it is less business.

This is on point. When a ST turns into TLN I’m definitely not hitting it in the morning unless she initiates sex. Even then I’m going to tell her if she wants dick I’m not paying for her to have it. Stranger or regular they’re prone to think that if they f--k twice they get paid twice. If you want to f--k in the morning it’s best to ask her how much it’s going to cost.

That's on her. Personally, I have one price.  Price of access.  She stays that's on her.  If she let me f--k in the morning.  Same price.  I rather had slept without her.  My girl gets pissed off when I sprawl across the bed after she gets up to go to work.  I rather sleep alone.  For most dudes, TLN is just an ego thing.  Most of us aren't f--king all night.

Lazy, that might work for you, but for the ordinary monger I strongly suggest taking my advice.

Fair enough.  Experience and personality does lead to different interaction.  Just from reading this forum, I definitely deal with them differently than a lot dudes on here.  I have to deal with corporate America nonsense on a daily basis, I should be able to handle a twentysomething hooker in a third world country. 

[murano2010]

This is why before i go to sleep with a chica I always ask " quieres mas dinero dormir contigo?" sometimes they will want an extra 1.5-2k pesos other times they want to just sleep in a comfortable AC controlled room lol.

Communication is free never assume

Thats one way to do it.   A riskier way.  Is not to ask if she wants more money.  Just tell her flat out that you do not have any more money to give her.  NONE!   Not for her sleeping or for sex.   I mainly suggest doing that with known chicas with a good history.