Cuba started the downfall in Sosua

[murano2010]

Lets call a spade a spade.  One of the reasons why Davids Plaza was not going to survive was because he wasnt willing to pay enough to whoever had the power to allow him to keep his place open.   The other reasons were just things out of his control.   

Same for Clasico, and any other entity that was forced to close.   El Flow.  Blue Ice etc.   They were forced to close.   As for Classico and El Flow,  that real estate was prime choice.   Some body or some entity wanted to get it because others had a vested interest in it.   Classico's situation is interesting,  cause I believe Sosuas current mayor was acting as a representative for the actual owner.   So Classico did get shutdown,  but it's uncertain if any outside investers were able to get their hands on the property.   

How about D'Latin?  My understanding is the current mayor once again was operating on behalf of the actual owner.   But once the plan was set,  he left that alone and opened up the spot in Playa Chiquita. 

My point here is this.   There are many factors that caused unfavorable change in Sosua.   It makes no sense to blame all of these changes simply on guys coming to Sosua to visit.   In some instances some people feel certain places that closed ruined Sosua.   Even if one chose to make that argument.   You cant blame closures on foreigners, or black guys in particular.      The evidence of what happened is in our faces.   

4 Chinese businesses came as a result of claiming some of the real estate on the strip, and nearby.  A VA health Clinic is where El Flow/Prat whatever?  Mongers didnt close these places.  Cameras and YT didnt close these places.  Powers that be wanted to make sure investors got their hands on the prime real estate.

Think about it.  Does Sosua really need 4 Chinese general merchandise stores that are within yards and 2 blocks of each other.   Even in Sosua Abajo there is a Chinese general merchandise store.   Imagine what it took in order for those investors to get their hands on that piece of real estate.   I think it was a hardware store before.   No it's not foreigners ruining anything.   It's economic growth and people with money and clout coming here able to influence those who can make things happen. 

[murano2010]

Many of the shacks on the beach may be forced to shutdown in the near future.   A lot of jobs and livelihoods will be affected.   Many people that work on the beach, have done so for many many years.     Whats to come may be classified as a downfall or ruination of Sosua.  Are we gonna blame foreigners/mongers for that too?   No, these changes that are here and to come have more to do with massive amounts of money coming into this country. 

That is more significant than this being about mongers on YT, not popping, not being in shape, not speaking Spanish, not adept in DR culture, or not listening to certain music that chicas supposedly like.   

[murano2010]

Whats the difference in how the DR govt/people would treat an investor like E. Dean Cole establishing a restaurant in Puerto Plata, and some unknown Chinese folks investing in several businesses throughout the DR, making roads, bringing medicine/supplies, industrial and other provisions to the DR? 

Who owns the property to Atlanta Lights now, and what is there now, or going to be there soon?   

[El_lobo00]

Dyckman on Sundays also had a considerable impact on Dominicans.  Remember, Dominicans always want to emulate their friends and families in the states. Urban music took off when Dominicans saw the fusion of hip-hop when Dominicans started singing hip-hop in Spanish.  That is when you saw clubs in the Dominican Republic crossing over to everyone buying bottles, and partying as they did with Dyckman on Sundays.  Those videos coming out of Dyckman, then everyone was watching, and if you were from New York and about the Dominican culture you were up there hanging out. 

Dominican artists started to come onto the urban scene, and that is when Urban music exploded in the Dominican Republic.  Go to major league baseball game and when you listen to Dominican professional baseball players introduced, listen to what music they pick.  It will have a hip-hop Dominican artist-inspired sound. 

When I said what was happening, most were not paying attention, but if you understood culture, you knew what was coming.  It also exposed NYC dudes who were going to Sosua who thought they were all that but could not flow and do well with Dyckman on Sundays.  Dominican culture continues to evolve, and the problem is most dudes are stuck in the past and disconnected from young chicks and how they flow now.  Dominican young chicks have no problem being on social media as long as they can show their friends about the new lifestyle that started on Dyckman.  If you do not understand Dyckman, then you are "out of touch" with the urban culture of young Dominicans.

That is why I laugh when I see racist posts.  They did not follow you, Dominicans followed us so you really out the game if you cannot flow in that new lifestyle.

Correct me if I am wrong 285, I’m guessing you are from NYC but not from Dyckman. I was Born and raised in that area, so let me provide a lil more depth for the folks not from the city…

Until the last decade or so, Dyckman was an area little known to outsiders, unless they were Dominican or involved with hood shit. As a result, the nightspots in Dyckman attract a certain demographic, typically Dominicans and/or hood n----s trying to live out their “triple beam lyrical dream” fantasies. As the area became more widely known around 2010, you started to see newer venues pop up west of Broadway, for example mamajuana or the famous La Marina before they got shut down. Women everywhere are attracted to whom they believe are high value men, aka hypergamy. In this environment, that translates to looking for athletes, entertainers, and Street pharmacists 😉. If you are in those nightspots in Dyckman and don’t fall into one of those categories or you’re not dominican, you’re kinda swimming against the tide trying to hunt there. However, to claim that if you’re not successful in this specific environment that you can’t be successful mongering in DR is wrong. I say that for a couple of reasons:

1) Dominicans are not a monolith. You have different classes just like everywhere else. For example, you’re probably more likely to run into higher class chicas in Santiago than you would in Santo Domingo. Likewise, the type of chicas you’d run into at a spot like Flordita in my hood are more likely to be lower class than the ones encountered at Mastros steak house. Those chicas in different classes are not looking for the same type of men. Higher level women don’t give a shit about how you flow in the night scene or how many bottles you pop, they wanna see tangible proof of high value. consequently, the “game” that works to pull hood chicas will absolutely fall flat with higher level women

2) speaking of game, at the end of the day the mongering game is about getting straight to the point, exchanging $ for 🐱. You think those entertainers and athletes need to run game on chicas? Absolutely not. Because they have demonstrated that they can provide value to the chicas, namely in the form of clout and $. In most places in the DR, just speaking English is a walking advertisement of value. I’m not saying you don’t know need to be able to effectively and confidently interact with chicas. But all the game and ability to flow is no replacement for money, period. As long as you have that economic leverage and chicas need money, there will availability with someone somewhere for the right price. Due to inflation and increased competition, You may have to pay more now than in the past, but mongering is still in play.

[tugboaboat5393]

P4P Sirs !Plain and simple !

[murano2010]

To add to your perspective Thelobe2022, you are correct about mongering being still in play even if paying more.   

We can also consider that the impact of mongers income/salaries from where they come from, calculated over a span of years, has made it easier to keep up with the cost of paying more.   It's not really that much more, when we factor in how much money a typical monger earns and has to spend.  Also factoring in the DR economy at the time, and the exchange rate at the time.     

In 2010 for instance, pussy was maybe 500 to 1500 pesos for short time.  2000 for all night.    Flights to the DR were  between $200 and $400 round trip.  The average guy coming to Sosua may have earned between 20k to 75k.     The exchange rate ( USD to pesos ) may have been around 37 to 1 to about 41 to 1.   

In 2015, the average salaries were higher.  The exchange rate for foreigners was even better.  And yet, a guy could still get laid for 1500 pesos for ST, and 2000 for TLN.   

Fast forward to 2020.  Salaries were even higher than in 2015.  The cost of p4p was still relatively low.  The DR economy was not significantly rising out of control for foreigners.   Just the expectations of the chicas , the airlines , apartment rentals, home sales, resorts.   Opportunists were following how rich visiting foreigners were compared to DR folks, and raised costs of goods and services to take advantage of that.   

The exchange rate was better for foreigners.  And the increase that chicas started demanding was not that much from 2010. 

Now, chicks asking for $100 for short time , the problem from mongers that dont want to pay that, is not about the cost of pussy going up.  I think it's more about the principle,  that guys were recognizing that a lot of chicas were not worth the higher cost of doing business with them.      As for the DR economy and inflation, that hadnt skyrocketed that much to warrant working girls getting paid like that.   

Most mongers dont get pleasure out of giving away money to a chick treating her job like she's washing and waxing vehicles at an automatic car wash.   Many guys will give a chick $100 based on a memorable experience or how the guy feels about the girls situation/needs.   But not just paying $100 to some ungrateful chick, ready to jump in the shower the moment the guy busts a nut. 

Even back in 2010,  some guys gave chicks $50 to 100 voluntarily.  Especially for an outstanding performance,  or quality GFE.  Took care of women and their families.   Even if they didnt realize they were being played.   So paying a chick $100 is not that big of a deal for some guys.   

From the old Classico days,  some chicks carried themselves or dressed very classy like.  They looked like women that could get a man to overpay.  In Merengue, chicks were more casual, but still nice looking.   Their expectations of getting paid were more reasonable.   Somewhere down the line, chicks started making ridiculous demands, with many willing to negotiate for a lot less if they had to.

Unfortunately,  that negotiating practice turned a lot of dudes off.   And it got worse when certain chicks refused to budge from their over priced demands. 

[Bat Man]

exactly.  I don't like Sosua either so I almost never go. You could stop right there. Nothing lasts forever when I was a Kid 42nd street looked way different and I guess you could say that Giulani "ruined" it. But he didn't real estate speculators did way before Giuliani became mayor.

It's like saying that so and so "ruined" The Help disco and Rio in general no it didn't shit closed because of reasons spots rise and fall.

Good example.   I was thinking of Club HELP when I was typing.   Ive heard many people talking about how great it was.   I also heard enough bitching about the closing of Club Help.  In that bunch were always people trying to assign blame for why something changed.   

I say, what difference does it make?   It closed, so move on.   In Sosua,  La Passions and CMP closed.   A bunch of fun bars closed.  City Lights closed.  Classico closed.   Merengue Bar had closed.   El Flow had closed.  The list is endless.   A lot of blame was unjustly assigned to mongers.  Totally ignoring the fact that the people that ran things had a totally different agenda on the future of Sosua,  which had nothing to do with mongers ruining Sosua.   

But more about investors from countries like China and the US that were bringing tons money into the DR.  And also directly into the hands of the politicians, making them rich.      Wasnt China the country that made it possible for some of the roads that were built in the DR?   Thats just one example.   There are a lot of things the DR did not build,  but now have because of foreign interest. 

China has a major interest in the DR, as well as the US and others.   Prostitution in an area,  is just an inconvenience where it gets in the way of the bigger picture.   The DR govt aint trying that hard, of ridding prostitution entirely.   How else are the locals supposed to survive if welfare for all of it's citizens is not part of the DR economy?   Prostitution is as much a part of tourism and survival of locals as the hotel industry. 

Let us reflect. To this day,  the ability to monger is still available in Sosua, and the DR in general.   The powers that be just want it to be discreet, without it being broadcast worldwide.   The problem is, in this world we all have to co exist with ignorant people that dont give a f--k.    The locals are just as much responsible for promoting a lack of discretion as foreigners are.   For instance,  when chicks steal from foreigners or set foreigners up,  and that gets out,  that is not good for business. 

On the positive note, you can shop for pussy online before even setting foot in the DR.   Remember when chicks used to have to go to an internet cafe in order to connect with the dozen or so men they had on the hook?   The time we were buying phone cards with minutes? 

Now that can be accomplished from a cell phone.  So now, all nefarious dealings going on can be accomplished more efficiently. 

Everybody who started coming to Sosua in the last 5 to 30 yrs ago,  we all got older.   Dominican women in the p4p game seem to age in dog years, IMHO.     New people ( locals and foreigners ) turned into adults and are carrying on what has been established.  It's not supposed to or expected to be exactly like it was "back in the day"    Shit , my old neighborhood and the city that I grew up in isnt the same as it was back in the day.   I left it behind to move on.    Some people I knew back then, are dead and buried.   

Im not going to blame them for not living long enough to maintain what I left behind.   

Exactly people are talking about Chinese Junk shops, Why are they there? China is trying to sell their stuff all over the world. Most of the stuff sold in the DR is imported from the states China is trying to change that.

Like you said the politicians are trying to get relected and get paid they don't give a rats ass about what a few mongers think about some random bar being shuttered.

[Bat Man]

To add to your perspective Thelobe2022, you are correct about mongering being still in play even if paying more.   

We can also consider that the impact of mongers income/salaries from where they come from, calculated over a span of years, has made it easier to keep up with the cost of paying more.   It's not really that much more, when we factor in how much money a typical monger earns and has to spend.  Also factoring in the DR economy at the time, and the exchange rate at the time.     

In 2010 for instance, pussy was maybe 500 to 1500 pesos for short time.  2000 for all night.    Flights to the DR were  between $200 and $400 round trip.  The average guy coming to Sosua may have earned between 20k to 75k.     The exchange rate ( USD to pesos ) may have been around 37 to 1 to about 41 to 1.   

In 2015, the average salaries were higher.  The exchange rate for foreigners was even better.  And yet, a guy could still get laid for 1500 pesos for ST, and 2000 for TLN.   

Fast forward to 2020.  Salaries were even higher than in 2015.  The cost of p4p was still relatively low.  The DR economy was not significantly rising out of control for foreigners.   Just the expectations of the chicas , the airlines and hotels who were following how rich foreigners were getting compared to DR folks.   

The exchange rate was better for foreigners.  And the increase that chicas starting demanding was not that much from 2010. 

Now, chicks asking for $100 for short time , the problem from mongers that dont want to pay that, is not about the cost of pussy going up.  I think it's more about the principle,  that guys were recognizing that a lot of chicas were not worth the higher cost of doing business with them.      As for the DR economy and inflation, that hadnt skyrocketed that much to warrant working girls getting paid like that.   

Most mongers dont get pleasure out of giving away money to a chick treating her job like she's washing and waxing vehicles at an automatic car wash.   Many guys will give a chick $100 based on a memorable experience or how the guy feels about the girls situation/needs.   But not just paying $100 to some ungrateful chick, ready to jump in the shower the moment the guy busts a nut. 

Even back in 2010,  some guys gave chicks $50 to 100 voluntarily.  Especially for an outstanding performance,  or quality GFE.  Took care of women and their families.   Even if they didnt realize they were being played.   So paying a chick $100 is not that big of a deal for some guys.   

From the old Classico days,  some chicks carried themselves or dressed very classy like.  They looked like women that could get a man to overpay.  In Merengue, chicks were more casual, but still nice looking.   Their expectations of getting paid were more reasonable.   Somewhere down the line, chicks started making ridiculous demands, with many willing to negotiate for a lot less if they had to.

Unfortunately,  that negotiating practice turned a lot of dudes off.   And it got worse when certain chicks refused to budge from their over priced demands.

COVID and the Stimulus is one of the biggest factors in the increase in cost of pussy. for months the DR was one of the few countries allowing tourists in. The DR made more money during that period from Tourism that almost every other country.

I know for a fact some dudes youtubers and not who came to the DR living off their Stimmy checks and PPE loan money.

Not to mention the fact that all that adverstising on the internet and word of mouth brought a new demographic that knew nothing about "the old Sosua" and Classico's.

[stinqu]

Murano, you have a solid grasp of DR life (though your posts make my eyes blurr). Blaming this or that one thing is a fools game. We may not like the evolution of DR. but it is a fact. And it is still a fact that "any" man can go and have fun! What ever your wallet.Guys shitting on us pensioners is not cool at all, you try getting laid 10-12 times a month on a fixed income.

[murano2010]

COVID and the Stimulus is one of the biggest factors in the increase in cost of pussy. for months the DR was one of the few countries allowing tourists in. The DR made more money during that period from Tourism that almost every other country.

I know for a fact some dudes youtubers and not who came to the DR living off their Stimmy checks and PPE loan money.

Not to mention the fact that all that adverstising on the internet and word of mouth brought a new demographic that knew nothing about "the old Sosua" and Classico's.

True, a new or unseasoned demographic came onto the scene.   IMO though, an increase of the cost of pussy is not necessarily etched in stone or automatic.   Any chick can ask or demand a higher price for her time/services.   

That doesnt mean she is going to get it, or a man has to pay it.  At any time a monger can exercise his right and ability to seek someone else, at the price he is good with.   So to some extent, a higher cost for pussy may actually be non existent.  Especially, if potential customers have the ability choose who they do business with, at the price they agree to.   Now if a guy looks at not being able to get a specific woman because her price is too high, well then for him......the price of pussy has increased.

The problem we see all too often, is that enough men give up all of their leverage when dealing with p4p chicks.  Which inspires enough chicks to become more confident in sticking to trying to achieve their expectations and demands.   

Also we must bear in mind.  Not all guys are paying the same as another guy,  to the same chick.   One guy may pay a chick $100 , simply because she asked for it.  Another guy may be quoted 2500 to 3500, simply because she perceives the other guy differently.  Or the guy flat out refused her initial quote, and they both arrived at a lower price. 

An increase in the cost of pussy is only a reality if the costs are realized.    A guy can reduce his pussy costs by f--king a lot less.   He can also balance it out.  Pay a little more per session, but have less sessions than what he was accustomed to.   Or negotiate more aggressively, and keep his costs down that way.   

My overall point here.  I dont totally subscribe to the idea, that some guys overpaying are solely responsible for an increase in the cost of pussy for everybody.   If it can be confirmed that all guys pay exactly the same , with the same women for every transaction, then I might go along with that. 

But I know thats not the case.   And as long men have plenty of options in choosing providers or dismissing providers, an increase cost of pussy should never be an issue. 

[stinqu]

YOU are in control. Spent the month of NOV. in Bavaro (first time), didn't pull the trigger until day 3, when I got they scene. As newbie to the area the first place I hit was the local Casino (4 blocks away). High season had not started yet so chicas were starving and asked stupid prices, but took half. After 2 weeks of ST I started to look for GFE, almost impossible these days. Unless you sit down at a slot machine beside a hot chica. She looked 30 and rocken bod , turned out she was 45 and fantastic in bed. Old school chica, value for money gets you more money!!