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Author Topic: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua  (Read 3934 times)

JayMillz

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Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« on: January 22, 2023, 11:03:11 AM »
I tend to reject this notion that the downfall of Sosua began with Cuba Dave.  There were other factors in motion already before Cuba Dave arrived in Sosua that were accelerating the passage of information about Sosua, thereby increasing the number of mongers and changing the environment for the worse. 

There are a relatively finite number of cheap monger destinations in the world. Dudes from the military knew about them because every base in every shithole country that Uncle Sam sent them to attracted P4P. For a long time, military dudes and retirees were the primary ones that knew about mongering spots and all was well.  They knew a loose lip sinks ships so they pretty much kept things to themselves and there wasn't really a means or incentive to spread mass information about a paradise you were enjoying.
 
If we developed a timeline for Sosua's demise, it wouldn't begin with CD.  I tend to think that mongering groups/forums started this downfall.  These groups predate CD's arrival to Sosua and CD is or has probably been a member of these groups himself before arriving in Sosua.  In fact, Mulano, Shimmy, Miko, FlipFlop, Cuba Dave, Brione (Ahnvee/Bourbon) ... you name it ... all of these dudes have been members of these groups.

For me, specifically, I can point to Yahoo Groups back around 2002.  Maybe there are some Vets that know the time period better than me.  JimmyDR had a Yahoo Group that became very popular back then.  He might not have been the only one as other mongers like BigTrick may have had a group as well with pictures and people now exchanging information specifically about Sosua over the Internet at a higher rate that previously.  This, IMO, began the increase in mongers and the eventual downfall of Sosua.

Jimmy's Yahoo Group eventually became ISOC in around 2003?.  In fact, I would speculate that Cuba Dave was probably a member of ISOC.  With ISOC, the growth of information and mongers spread to a larger audience.  Even if you weren't a member, members would pass information along to non-members (their boys, travel buddies, other travelers, etc.) 

Help in Rio closed in 2010 and many of those mongers began to come to Sosua as a result.  They brought more of an hourly sport fuk mentality to Sosua and had an influence on some of the changes and the number of mongers coming to Sosua.

Then I think around 2010-2011?, TMBTS comes online and a forum that is public now allows the sharing of information about Sosua on an even larger scale.  This again continues to spread information about Sosua to a larger audience.  In addition to the forum, TMBTS also begins to roll out the first Creep Cams on Youtube, which spreads information about Sosua to an even larger and indiscriminate audience.

Continuing with our timeline, CD arrives in Sosua around 2010-2011?  https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ttdlm

I think you get the point.  If we fleshed out a timeline, we could point to many factors that predate CD's arrival in Sosua.
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jd66

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2023, 02:00:24 PM »
The online forums typically are not part of the downfall as long as they are moderated probably and that is the key.

Take ISOC which has been around for 20-30 years.  There is a wealth of great information that is still being shared currently there but unless you have proven yourself as a trusted member you will never get access to the best information.   

Much of it has moved to private Facebook or Whatsapp groups and as long as it can be moderated and information is controlled it works out pretty good but they all have knuckleheads that cause trouble. 

True there is alot of stupid stuff hitting YouTube and the like these days with complete dumbasses saying way more than they should be but the reality is much of it is only ever reaching a very small audience.    But the problem is that audience can include a Karen type that can make things uncomfortable for others.

Just be careful about which forums and places you share your information.


« Last Edit: January 22, 2023, 02:02:11 PM by jd66 »

Bat Man

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2023, 02:48:09 PM »
I think I was a member of JimmyDR's group before I ever thought of mongering.

Back then guys could add you to yahoo groups and soon it got completely out of control.

The Military guys and especially the Navy and Coast Guard dudes know all of the spots around the globe and if you don't know any sailors you won't know what they know.

I never heard TGI Thursdays in the UAE discussed but met a bunch of sailors rave about the place.

It kinda doesn't matter at the end of the day spots rise and fall and unless you're giving life changing sums to hoes It doesn't make sense for a girl to f--k one random guy for the equivalent of a week's worth of groceries.  So there needs to be a certain amount of adverstising.

As a dude who much prefers Colombia Colombia will never be a replacement for the DR because even though there's 5X the amount of women in Colombia a much greater ratio of women are available in the DR because of all those thirsty mongers every chica knows a girl who's whole family is living off the earnings of Prostitution.

tugboaboat5393

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2023, 03:59:30 PM »
I tend to reject this notion that the downfall of Sosua began with Cuba Dave.  There were other factors in motion already before Cuba Dave arrived in Sosua that were accelerating the passage of information about Sosua, thereby increasing the number of mongers and changing the environment for the worse. 

There are a relatively finite number of cheap monger destinations in the world. Dudes from the military knew about them because every base in every shithole country that Uncle Sam sent them to attracted P4P. For a long time, military dudes and retirees were the primary ones that knew about mongering spots and all was well.  They knew a loose lip sinks ships so they pretty much kept things to themselves and there wasn't really a means or incentive to spread mass information about a paradise you were enjoying.
 
If we developed a timeline for Sosua's demise, it wouldn't begin with CD.  I tend to think that mongering groups/forums started this downfall.  These groups predate CD's arrival to Sosua and CD is or has probably been a member of these groups himself before arriving in Sosua.  In fact, Mulano, Shimmy, Miko, FlipFlop, Cuba Dave, Brione (Ahnvee/Bourbon) ... you name it ... all of these dudes have been members of these groups.

For me, specifically, I can point to Yahoo Groups back around 2002.  Maybe there are some Vets that know the time period better than me.  JimmyDR had a Yahoo Group that became very popular back then.  He might not have been the only one as other mongers like BigTrick may have had a group as well with pictures and people now exchanging information specifically about Sosua over the Internet at a higher rate that previously.  This, IMO, began the increase in mongers and the eventual downfall of Sosua.

Jimmy's Yahoo Group eventually became ISOC in around 2003?.  In fact, I would speculate that Cuba Dave was probably a member of ISOC.  With ISOC, the growth of information and mongers spread to a larger audience.  Even if you weren't a member, members would pass information along to non-members (their boys, travel buddies, other travelers, etc.) 

Help in Rio closed in 2010 and many of those mongers began to come to Sosua as a result.  They brought more of an hourly sport fuk mentality to Sosua and had an influence on some of the changes and the number of mongers coming to Sosua.

Then I think around 2010-2011?, TMBTS comes online and a forum that is public now allows the sharing of information about Sosua on an even larger scale.  This again continues to spread information about Sosua to a larger audience.  In addition to the forum, TMBTS also begins to roll out the first Creep Cams on Youtube, which spreads information about Sosua to an even larger and indiscriminate audience.

Continuing with our timeline, CD arrives in Sosua around 2010-2011?  https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ttdlm

I think you get the point.  If we fleshed out a timeline, we could point to many factors that predate CD's arrival in Sosua.
Well said sir !

murano2010

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2023, 05:13:36 PM »
Can we define exactly what is meant by Sosuas "downfall" using an event time line?   What represents Sosua when a downfall doesnt exist or isnt present?   I ask this question, because Sosuas status represents different things to different people.   Past, present and the speculative future.     

And lastly when we talk about a downfall, are we talking about the negative evolution of the town specifically,  or talking mainly about the negative evolution of the people that visit or govern Sosua?   

« Last Edit: January 22, 2023, 05:16:47 PM by murano2010 »
Where you stand on the issue depends on where you sit.  The words enough, some, many , to whom it applies to, does not mean ALL of any people, places or things.  If you cant, dont or wont learn from friends, family or your peers, dont worry the locals will teach you, and you will learn the hard way.

JayMillz

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2023, 06:56:52 PM »
Can we define exactly what is meant by Sosuas "downfall" using an event time line?   What represents Sosua when a downfall doesnt exist or isnt present?   I ask this question, because Sosuas status represents different things to different people.   Past, present and the speculative future.     

And lastly when we talk about a downfall, are we talking about the negative evolution of the town specifically,  or talking mainly about the negative evolution of the people that visit or govern Sosua?

All good questions.  When I think of a downfall or demise, I think of factors that contribute to making Sosua a less monger friendly environment.  Things that would characterize a demise are all the things we hear people in this forum complaining about (decrease in quality of service, on average less attractive women, less establishments that cater to mongering, etc.).
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murano2010

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2023, 08:49:05 AM »
Can we define exactly what is meant by Sosuas "downfall" using an event time line?   What represents Sosua when a downfall doesnt exist or isnt present?   I ask this question, because Sosuas status represents different things to different people.   Past, present and the speculative future.     

And lastly when we talk about a downfall, are we talking about the negative evolution of the town specifically,  or talking mainly about the negative evolution of the people that visit or govern Sosua?

All good questions.  When I think of a downfall or demise, I think of factors that contribute to making Sosua a less monger friendly environment.  Things that would characterize a demise are all the things we hear people in this forum complaining about (decrease in quality of service, on average less attractive women, less establishments that cater to mongering, etc.).
What you provided is a start.  But it would still be a good idea to connect the dots and identify how these things are considered leading to a downfall of Sosua?   And how is it, certain characters are blamed directly for contributing to it?   CD or TMD how did they contribute to a downfalll?    If anything,  their contribution may have led to blowing up Sosua, making it more popular.

Some of the other things are tied to things CD, TMD , and YTubers are not responsible for.  Like less attractive chicks or so called poor quality chicks, less establishments that cater to mongering, less monger friendly establishments etc.   

When club HELP shut down in Brazil, you would have thought mongering as a whole was done in Brazil.  And I think what Im getting at here, is that guys get together and assume some downfall is in effect, when that may not even be the case.  All it means is that things have evolved, and some guys may not be that adaptable to change. 

I have dudes make it known that they just started coming to Sosua in the last 3 to 5 yrs.  Their starting point or point of reference is relatively short lived compared to guys who were coming to Sosua over 10 to 20 yrs ago.

The places that were open to them, the quality of chicks here then, the mongering status then, the social climate then,  may not indicate a downfall of Sosua.   They may experience their own form of changes, and determine then if Sosua is experiencing a downfall or not. 

Sosuas status is subjective and individualized.   Even a vet like me doesnt feel affected by an alleged downfall.  Im an older cat now compared to what I was since 2008.  The fact that p4p is available in Sosua does not indicate a downfall.   It indicates a characteristic that is alive and still going strong.   The visitors and participants that come to Sosua, they are the ones that have changed,  not Sosua.   Sosua didnt downfall IMO.  People evolved in favorable and unfavorable directions.

Classico and D Latin closed ( which could be compared to club HELP ), how did their closures cause a downfall of Sosua?  Establishments closed, but that never stopped mongering.  The police are NOT locking up mongers and tourists for prostitution, YET.   

Passions, CMP, Rancho Tipico closed, but that didnt cause a downfall of mongering.  An address or location for mongers to visit does not define the overall status of a town.  Let us think about it.  Where in Sosua are mongers or prostitutes not allowed to go?   Just about every hotel, apt rental agency, store,office, bank, restaurant, the beach you name it, if its in Sosua they allow mongers and prostitutes to come there.  Including Hispaniola, Casa Linda, and so many neighboring places.   They are all monger and prostitute friendly.  Sosua is a nice little monger/prostitute friendly town.

Now as far as the quality of women?  Well thats another area that is subjective and individualized.  I know dudes that arent turned off by some of the women as far as appearance is concerned.  Now when it comes to quality of service, attitude, GFE capabilities and anything else we have all enjoyed,  those things are people related problems.  Not necessarily a downfall of a town.

We all know, that things as they are,  it simply means an individual may have to step up and be more careful finding providers to hire.  Some cats look at that as a worthwhile challenge, while others may look at it like.  "I thought Sosua was supposed to be just point and click?"   "Now I really have to have monger skills in order to protect my own interests".

Back in the day, monger members used to always claim that mongering in Santo Domingo was not for the faint at heart.  That you really had to have your wits about you.  Know some Spanish etc.   Well the way I see it.  Sosua is now like Santo Domingo.  It's less point and click, and more about knowing how to navigate in shark infested waters.   Which I believe I have done well up until this point.

It's quite possible, that the less one is here, the more they may be negatively affected by the changes that have taken place.  Especially those with long absences from coming here.  What they see when they get here may be a shock to the system.  Frequent visitors or expats will have easily adapted, and put things in it's proper perspective.   

That Sosua itself hasnt downfalled.  Some people have failed to accept and adapt to the changes.   But one thing hasnt changed.   P4P still going strong.   It's just some cats are better at adapting than others.   It's true,  there are some fine women still coming to Sosua.  So the question is,  are some guys insecure because they cant get to those women for some particular reason?   Too expensive? unavailable?  Or other issues?   A dick can only be in one hole at a time.   Guys have so many options they dont even realize it. 
« Last Edit: January 23, 2023, 08:59:22 AM by murano2010 »
Where you stand on the issue depends on where you sit.  The words enough, some, many , to whom it applies to, does not mean ALL of any people, places or things.  If you cant, dont or wont learn from friends, family or your peers, dont worry the locals will teach you, and you will learn the hard way.

murano2010

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2023, 09:12:14 AM »
Maybe a definition of a downfall of Sosua can simply mean, some men are experiencing the effects of having less leverage with women in the p4p game?   Women exercising showing their leverage by sticking to higher asking prices.  Looking the way they choose to look, even if it turns off a small percentage of the monger population.

Chicks not desperate like the old days, so they dont have to rely on coming to Sosua when they can easily work from their phone.  Which also means, mongers can also use their phones to connect with those women.

Chicks are following the money.  They know guys have more income now where they come from.  They know the exchange rate has skyrocketed since 2010.  So it makes sense that enough women are going to seek hire wages for their time.  Cant expect a majority of chicks to still accept 2000 pesos for ST forever. 

And we cant expect blabbermouth guys to keep quiet about how expensive pussy is where they come from, and how cheap it is in Sosua. 

Still any mongers assessment of Sosua overall is subjective and individualized.   And that can vary day to day, trip to trip. 
Where you stand on the issue depends on where you sit.  The words enough, some, many , to whom it applies to, does not mean ALL of any people, places or things.  If you cant, dont or wont learn from friends, family or your peers, dont worry the locals will teach you, and you will learn the hard way.

murano2010

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2023, 09:20:20 AM »
Even some of the Haitian chicks expectation$ of getting paid has increased.  Ive heard quite a few stories of Haitian chicks asking for USD.  Like $70 bucks and up for ST.  You have a lot more hardcore Haitian chicks in the game now. 
Where you stand on the issue depends on where you sit.  The words enough, some, many , to whom it applies to, does not mean ALL of any people, places or things.  If you cant, dont or wont learn from friends, family or your peers, dont worry the locals will teach you, and you will learn the hard way.

murano2010

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2023, 09:36:37 AM »
Another major area where IMO, men may feel they have lost leverage :  Women are better off financially now.   Because enough of them may have several and steady sources of income coming in from foreigners. 

Foreigners buying chicks cars, paying for apts and houses, monthly maintenance income.  Helping chicks with starting and maintaining a business.   So when it comes to mongering in Sosua, mongers are spending more time meeting and accommodating p4p chicks needs and wants, instead of chicks proactively pursuing them due to being poor.   Chicks used to work to buy those things for themselves.  Now, more guys are paying them to f--k, and also paying for stuff that should have come from a chicks earnings.  Her p4p income. 

Chicks are into juggling men more, because their client base is easier to manage using the latest technology.  Guys are subject to sitting around waiting on chicks more,  because chicks have more shit going on.  A lot more lying is going on than ever before to keep mongers in check.  Women are out performing the monger sportf--kers in terms of the ability to juggle their connections.   

You want the fine ass dimes?  How much are you willing to put up with to get with them?   
« Last Edit: January 23, 2023, 09:39:13 AM by murano2010 »
Where you stand on the issue depends on where you sit.  The words enough, some, many , to whom it applies to, does not mean ALL of any people, places or things.  If you cant, dont or wont learn from friends, family or your peers, dont worry the locals will teach you, and you will learn the hard way.

TheRealDallas

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2023, 09:59:58 AM »
🤷🏾‍♂️ All one has to do is fall back, and let them starve

PoonTangClan

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2023, 10:01:26 AM »
Maybe a definition of a downfall of Sosua can simply mean, some men are experiencing the effects of having less leverage with women in the p4p game?   Women exercising showing their leverage by sticking to higher asking prices.  Looking the way they choose to look, even if it turns off a small percentage of the monger population.

Chicks not desperate like the old days, so they dont have to rely on coming to Sosua when they can easily work from their phone.  Which also means, mongers can also use their phones to connect with those women.

Chicks are following the money.  They know guys have more income now where they come from.  They know the exchange rate has skyrocketed since 2010.  So it makes sense that enough women are going to seek hire wages for their time.  Cant expect a majority of chicks to still accept 2000 pesos for ST forever. 

And we cant expect blabbermouth guys to keep quiet about how expensive pussy is where they come from, and how cheap it is in Sosua. 

Still any mongers assessment of Sosua overall is subjective and individualized.   And that can vary day to day, trip to trip.

I think Murano hit the nail right on the head with this👆. This is probably the most accurate definition of “downfall” when it comes to Sosua.

PoonTangClan

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2023, 10:08:37 AM »
🤷🏾‍♂️ All one has to do is fall back, and let them starve

Dallas,

I agree. If everyone was on the same page, Sosua would change overnight, but sadly, this can never be the case.

The new crop of mongers are simply too thirsty. There are also a massive amount of incels (involuntarily celibate) men amongst them coming to Sosua. They’ll pay damn near any price to get laid. Smh.


Travelguy90

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2023, 11:05:02 AM »
Maybe a definition of a downfall of Sosua can simply mean, some men are experiencing the effects of having less leverage with women in the p4p game?   Women exercising showing their leverage by sticking to higher asking prices.  Looking the way they choose to look, even if it turns off a small percentage of the monger population.

Chicks not desperate like the old days, so they dont have to rely on coming to Sosua when they can easily work from their phone.  Which also means, mongers can also use their phones to connect with those women.

Chicks are following the money.  They know guys have more income now where they come from.  They know the exchange rate has skyrocketed since 2010.  So it makes sense that enough women are going to seek hire wages for their time.  Cant expect a majority of chicks to still accept 2000 pesos for ST forever. 

And we cant expect blabbermouth guys to keep quiet about how expensive pussy is where they come from, and how cheap it is in Sosua. 

Still any mongers assessment of Sosua overall is subjective and individualized.   And that can vary day to day, trip to trip.

I think Murano hit the nail right on the head with this👆. This is probably the most accurate definition of “downfall” when it comes to Sosua.
Thats exactly the point. Dudes simp in all P4P countries, cities but not exactly in the center of the Red Light District.  Sosua is the only city/RLD where fools are happy to parade around a perceived dime than get to business THERE. It’s an abundance on talent but dudes have a scarcity and bragging mentality.

If that’s in the hardcore area, how simpish do you think they are in a more vague/grey area? The urge to pedestal an attractive woman outweighs even hitting for some guys. You’re still going to do the same where ever you go, you’re just surrounded by more Simps for odd reasons. It’s maybe in their nature and not of ignorance.
Cheaper ways to do things, doesn’t indicate quality, or lack of

stinqu

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Re: Cuba Dave DIDN'T Start The Downfall Of Sosua
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2023, 09:47:00 PM »
Maybe a definition of a downfall of Sosua can simply mean, some men are experiencing the effects of having less leverage with women in the p4p game?   Women exercising showing their leverage by sticking to higher asking prices.  Looking the way they choose to look, even if it turns off a small percentage of the monger population.

Chicks not desperate like the old days, so they dont have to rely on coming to Sosua when they can easily work from their phone.  Which also means, mongers can also use their phones to connect with those women.

Chicks are following the money.  They know guys have more income now where they come from.  They know the exchange rate has skyrocketed since 2010.  So it makes sense that enough women are going to seek hire wages for their time.  Cant expect a majority of chicks to still accept 2000 pesos for ST forever. 

And we cant expect blabbermouth guys to keep quiet about how expensive pussy is where they come from, and how cheap it is in Sosua. 

Still any mongers assessment of Sosua overall is subjective and individualized.   And that can vary day to day, trip to trip.

I think Murano hit the nail right on the head with this👆. This is probably the most accurate definition of “downfall” when it comes to Sosua.
WTF. Exersicing their right!! to over charge!!! Been there long long enough to know a family of 4 can live well on 15,000 a month. A chica looking for more than that a week is putting it up her nose.Know real people that live there, and if I help them out with some pesos here and there they are grateful. When I cook I cook for every one THERE. A shared meal is a bond of friendship. 

 







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